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Talk:Warden Kuril
What is the gun that Kuril uses when you fight him? --Twentyfists 23:31, February 14, 2010 (UTC) :M-76 Revenant Matt 2108 23:33, February 14, 2010 (UTC) Bareface "As a point of interest, the turian term "barefaced" refers to one who is beguiling or not to be trusted." '--Galactic Codex (Secondary>Aliens: Council Races>Turians: The Unification War)' I was wondering if anyone else thinks this is worth mentioning as a form of trivia, as Warden Kuril is one of the very few turians you interact with throughout the Mass Effect universe who bears no facial markings--and sure enough, the guy feeds you lies and betrays you. Just a thought. Ramikadyc 05:44, March 1, 2010 (UTC) :yeah that seems rather important and it is on saren and illo nazarios pagesDtemps123 23:46, March 1, 2010 (UTC) ::So is the Presidium Groundskeeper, but he's actually a pretty friendly guy. ```` :::Lilihierax also appears to be barefaced, and he is also very friendly, honest, and straightforward. It seems to me that this is just a stereotype among turians, and that it's possible to cherry-pick people who fit it, even though not every barefaced turian is, in fact, "beguiling or not to be trusted". SpartHawg948 06:08, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :::Gavorn may also be barefaced, either that or he has very light markings on a light-colored face. And other than working as a guard Captain for Aria on Omega, he seems like a real straight-shooter. SpartHawg948 06:15, March 3, 2010 (UTC) : It's hard to tell, what with the lighting, but I think the Presidium Groundskeeper actually does have face paint. It's just flat white paint over his entire face. 06:50, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :: Lilihierax isn't barefaced, his clan markings are just very close to his skin tone (it's hard to see at a passing glance, they are easier to see while actually in conversation with him). As for Gavorn, I believe he does, but I will confirm this shortly. That said, I believe the 'barefaced' trait is certainly applicable to the treacherous Warden. Incrognito 06:20, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :Fair enough. And that's why I used phrases such as "appears to be" and "may also be". Good 'ol CYA. I was just going off the images as opposed to conversing with them in game, so I figured better leave a little wiggle room just in case. :P SpartHawg948 06:26, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :: Sorry, I can sometimes be bit of a 'truthist', correcting tentative points without mercy or consideration. I certainly don't hold anything against you. Besides, I am not totally convinced Gavorn isn't without clan markings. I just had another conversation with him and on the close-ups, I think I see some white-ish paint under each eye, but it is very faint. It could be a trick of the light, but at any rate I think that as you said, 'barefaced' is simply a cultural seterotype which has little evidence to its credit. Incrognito 06:51, March 3, 2010 (UTC) :::Indeed. Bear in mind also that the "one who is beguiling or not to be trusted" is only one half of the common meaning of barefaced. As is pointed out, it's also a slang term for a politician. This of course means that the turian Councilor is a bareface, even though he has very prominent facial markings. SpartHawg948 06:58, March 3, 2010 (UTC) The reference to politicians is a slang term. The wording in the codex is clear on that, and makes it obvious that the word "bareface" came into use to directly refer to those without facial markings, and that it was applied to politicians later as a slang term, similar to how the word "smashed" refers to something broken but has also been adapted (as slang) to refer to someone who is drunk, or "totally smashed." Also, I want to direct everyone to this cool page: http://community.livejournal.com/masseffect/324766.html. Basically, this guy has rounded up all of the turian face tatoos in the game. Scroll to the end and you'll see the very few of them who do not bear facial markings: Saren, Warden Kuril, Gavorn, and a random C-Sec officer. Saren is an obvious example of one who can't be trusted. Gavorn, while being a very minor character, is still viewed by the vorcha to be a deceitful trickster who has screwed with them what appears to be more than a few times (speak with the vorcha Shisk in the lower Omega Markets). The random C-Sec officer, for all we know, could be corrupt, but speculation aside, him being a stand-in NPC shouldn't carry any weight. And Warden Kuril is the point of this discussion. Basically, what I'm getting at is that it's very clear that all of the barefaced turians in Mass Effect games so far are viewed as deceitful in one way or another; it was mentioned that the Presidium Groundskeeper is barefaced above, which is very wrong--go look at him again, or ask and I'll link a picture. If it's worth noting Lilihierax's voice as unique, I think it's worth considering to note these three unique characters' lack of facial markings, because I know I'm not the only one who finds it interesting. Ramikadyc 06:21, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :The reference to politicians is indeed slang. What of it? While it's not clearly labeled as slang, the use of barefaced to refer to someone who is beguiling/not to be trusted is a colloquialism, the next best thing to slang. I'm sure that the turians don't just assume that everyone who is barefaced is dishonest. If that were the case, no turian would be barefaced. SpartHawg948 07:04, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :: I'm just pointing out the difference between a word having "half a meaning" and a word having two different meanings. Colloquilisms, while similar to slang, are not slang. But I don't see the point in arguing semantics here, since the issue is not what "bareface" means--it is clearly defined--but rather it's regarding very unique individuals who fit a specific stereotype, which should be worth noting in the grand scheme of what is and isn't "trivia" on this wiki. That being said, I went back and looked at Gavorn in-game, and I believe he does in fact have facial markings, however unclear, located on his "cheek" area resembling pale lined strips, on and above his brow, and also lined on each of the plates on the top and back of his head. Here's the screenshot I took so anyone can make their own decisions. If he isn't barefaced, that cuts the amount of named barefaced turians in the games down by a third, making them even more unique, and that much more worthy of recognition for the "coincidental" correlation between their being barefaced (as defined by the game) and how they act. I'm also not sure what makes you ''so sure that turians don't make assumptions based on this stereotype, since turians are a very military people founded on discipline and tradition; I'm sure not ''every ''turian makes that assumption, but it seems to be implied that it's a common stereotype among turians just as there are numerous common stereotypes among human beings in real life, some justified (if you have pets you like animals) and some unjustified (white people can't dance, asians are good at math, etc). I'd skip all this discussion and change the pages to reflect this myself, since before I even brought this up I felt it was worth noting in the Trivia section, but I like to discuss changes before I make them, and now I get the feeling it would be removed for some reason or another, and I just can't figure out why people would be against it. Ramikadyc 07:49, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :I never said ''I was "so sure that turians don't make assumptions based on this stereotype", just that it's clear that the use of the term barefaced to refer to beguilers and liars appears to be a colloquialism, not the sole and literal definition of the word among the turian people. If it was, as I said, no turian would go around barefaced. It's common sense. If the general view was that everyone who had a mustache was a terrorist, no one would have mustaches, especially not terrorists. Likewise, if it was taken as common knowledge that all barefaced turians are lying bastards, no turian would go around barefaced, especially not turians like Saren and Kuril. SpartHawg948 08:29, March 5, 2010 (UTC) :Also, I for the life of me also can't figure out why anyone would be against mentioning it on the page. I certainly amn't, which is why I never opposed it. I was simply pointing out, in response to another user who chimed in with a few other barefaced turians, some who appeared to have no facial markings but didn't fit the deceitful bill. I like to find exceptions. There's nothing wrong with that. And I also felt it worthwhile to point out the other meaning, and how it shows that turians who aren't literally barefaced can still be barefaced (like the turian Councilor and Lantar Sidonis). And for the record, I am white and can't dance, and I do have a pet, but am not over fond of animals in general. So that makes me, what, 1 and 1 on those stereotypes? :P SpartHawg948 08:41, March 5, 2010 (UTC)